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<DIV><SPAN class=723523521-20072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>First
of all, I realize that fans of the Classic Coupes might not be very interested
in modern diesel cars (which on top of everything are only available in Europe -
at least for the time being). You can safely delete this message straight away
if that's the case. Apologies for filling up your inboxes.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=723523521-20072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=723523521-20072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Will a
diesel version of a particular body style get 20-25% better fuel economy than
the comparable gas version? Definitely. In addition you get a lot more
torque.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=723523521-20072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Example:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=723523521-20072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>520i
2.0 liter 4 cylinder, 170 HP @ 6,700 rpm / 210 Nm (153 ft-lbf) @ 4,250
rpm</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=723523521-20072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>520d
2.0 liter 4 cylinder, 177 HP @ 4,000 rpm / 350 Nm (256 f-lbf) @ 1,750
rpm</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=723523521-20072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The
diesel version is getting 24% better mileage for the mixed
cycle (20% better for highway / 30% better for city) and is more
powerful. The new car price difference is ~5%. The used car price difference
will favor the diesel version (lower consumption and more durable
engine).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=723523521-20072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>In
Europe the diesel is typically 5-10% more expensive than the gas. This is why
the majority of new BMWs sold in Europe are diesels. When the dynamics of
supply/demand get to work on this for a while, the price difference between gas
and diesel should be minimal.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=723523521-20072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=723523521-20072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>There's been nothing less than a revolution in diesel engine design over
the last few years. The good(?) old Mercedes 200D W123 from the 70' and 80' had
54-59 HP and 83 ft-lbf of torque from a 2 liter 4 cyl engine. Compare that to
the 520d above. A power & torque increase of over 200%, lowered consumption
and cleaner emissions.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=723523521-20072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=723523521-20072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Today,
the top performing BMW engine (in terms of torque) is NOT the 5.0 liter V10 in
the M5/M6 (380 ft-lbf @ 6,100 rpm). It's the 3.0 liter straight six diesel
(found in the 3/5/6/7/X3/X5/X6-series) with 423 ft-lbs @ 1,750 rpm. And
it's not only the high-reving nature of the M's causing this - the 535d has got
15% more torque that the "top-of-the-line" 6.0 liter V8 Silverado pick-up truck
(375 ft-lbf @ 4,300 rpm).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=723523521-20072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=723523521-20072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Tor</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=723523521-20072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>'74
3.0 CS</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=723523521-20072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>(180
HP @ 6,000 rpm / 188 ft-lbf @ 3,700 rpm - a lot less than today's 1.8
diesel......)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=723523521-20072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=723523521-20072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>PS:
The closest you'll get to a 700 in today's BMW fleet would be a 116i 3-door
(122 HP). It is less than half the price of the US favorite; the 135i
coupe.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> cgshawaii@netscape.net
[mailto:cgshawaii@netscape.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, July 20, 2008 3:02
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Taklo, Tor SIEP-EPT-WD<BR><B>Cc:</B>
bmwcsregistry@idb.ded.forest.net<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [BMWCSRegistry] Check
This New BWM Out Everyone<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>Good list, good point. My
thought about this is that I hoped, when the USA mandated "clean diesel" fuel,
that all sorts of interesting cars might arrive. Moments later, the
price of diesel (and gas) shot through the roof, and diesel seems to now
command a 20% to 25% price premium. <BR><BR>Do the diesel versions of a
particular body type get 20-25% better fuel economy than the comparable gas
version? Perhaps not, and when you factor that they may be rather more
expensive, I think the time for diesel may have passed UNLESS one can develop
a low-cost biodiesel source. Anyone got a friend with a restaurant that
does a lot of fat frying? Perhaps MacDonald's owners will soon have a
lot of new "friends".<BR><BR>I'm not calling doom and gloom, I expect there
will always be petroleum-based fuel for those who can pay for it. But
our transportation needs are not going to change as fast as we would like, and
alternative technologies even more slowly. This creates opportunities,
but imposes compromises. I am amused by the several versions of
motorcycle-powered cars (search 'em out on Youtube), but they too are missing
the point, being focused on performance rather than the potential of
fuel-efficient transportation. Too, liter-class bikes get mileage
figures close the the more efficient hybrid technologies, so that may not be a
useful direction to pursue.<BR><BR>Now if I could just find a sorted BMW 700,
or an Isetta...<BR><BR>
<DIV style="CLEAR: both">Charlie </DIV><BR><BR>-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: T.Taklo@shell.com<BR>To: cgshawaii@netscape.net<BR>Cc:
bmwcsregistry@idb.ded.forest.net<BR>Sent: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 6:21 pm<BR>Subject:
RE: [BMWCSRegistry] Check This New BWM Out Everyone<BR><BR>
<DIV id=AOLMsgPart_2_52d8c7ed-0c83-44c2-b3e3-87d94f750b9d>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=537074303-19072008>Charlie,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=537074303-19072008>BMW
<U>is</U> building fuel efficient cars - they are just not bringing them to
the US.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=537074303-19072008>A
few months ago a friend of mine postulated that <FONT face=Helvetica
color=#000000 size=3>"there's not a German car in existance that gets 35
MPG... much less an ability to AVERAGE that across the entire
fleet..."</FONT><BR>I took the time to go through the bmw.de web site, and
here's what I came up with:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=537074303-19072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><SPAN class=537074303-19072008>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>The following BMWs are getting 35 mpg or more
according to EU mixed driving cycle:</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>535 d auto</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>530 d x (4WD)</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>530 d</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>530 d Touring</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>525 d x</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>525 d</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>525 d Touring</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>520 d (46 mpg!)</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>520 d Touring</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>520 i </STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>335 d auto</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>330 d x</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>330 d</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>330 d Touring</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>325 d</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>325 d Touring</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>320 d (49 mpg!!)</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>318 d (50
mpg!!!)</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>320 i</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>320 i Touring</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>318 i</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>318 i Touring (as well as coupes and cabrios
for all the above 3's)</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>123 d</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>120 d</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>118 d</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>120 i</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>118 i</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>116 i</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>X3 2.0 d</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG></STRONG></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG>635d almost made it: 34 mpg (mixed
cycle)</STRONG></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><STRONG></STRONG></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><SPAN class=537074303-19072008>I understand that BMW
will be introducing a couple of diesels in the US by the end of the year, but
they seem reluctant to bring the "less powerful" models to the US market. No
wonder that the 1-series is expensive when the smallest engine offered is a 3
liter with well over 200 HP....</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><SPAN class=537074303-19072008>I'm sure the BMW
marketing executives are monitoring the market carefully at the moment, given
the increasing fuel prices. Maybe we'll se lighter and more fuel efficient
BMWs in the US as well in the near future.</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><SPAN
class=537074303-19072008></SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><SPAN
class=537074303-19072008>Tor</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=561251800-08122007><SPAN class=537074303-19072008>74 3.0
CS</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> <A
__removedLink__1755069635__href="mailto:bmwcsregistry-bounces@idb.ded.forest.net">bmwcsregistry-bounces@idb.ded.forest.net</A>
[<A
__removedLink__1755069635__href="mailto:bmwcsregistry-bounces@idb.ded.forest.net?">mailto:bmwcsregistry-bounces@idb.ded.forest.net</A>]<B>On
Behalf Of </B><A
__removedLink__1755069635__href="mailto:cgshawaii@netscape.net">cgshawaii@netscape.net</A><BR><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, July 18, 2008 6:40 PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A
__removedLink__1755069635__href="mailto:the-hound@juno.com">the-hound@juno.com</A>;
<A
__removedLink__1755069635__href="mailto:bmwcsregistry@idb.ded.forest.net">bmwcsregistry@idb.ded.forest.net</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [BMWCSRegistry] Check This New BWM Out
Everyone<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><BR>Okay.... but with BMW's penchant for
"customer engineering" (some latent, potentially very expensive, flaw in
each model) what might the first-generation electric Mini do to its
owner?<BR><BR>"Break My Wallet".<BR><BR>I thought the gas Mini was kinda
heavy for a "small" car, though I don't recall hard numbers. Electric
power wouldn't go well with that. <BR><BR>And, of course,
BMW WILL NOT build an economy car... look what happened with the 1
series, base price upwards of $30K... and not a fuel efficient motor in it,
either. Apparently they have utterly conceded that market to
others. Well, it's their choice. Brand loyalty will only carry
so far, but I think they've gone beyond that too, marketing and selling to
ego-driven buyers for whom a car purchase doesn't represent a major
expense.<BR><BR>I think small fuel efficient cars ARE the future, and large
cars will shortly become a thing of the past. We are seeing, I think
(hope?) the end of large vehicles. Yeah, there are holdouts, and haulers for
commercial use will always be here, but I can't think of anything that would
get me into something larger than my coupe. Mostly I ride a 2-wheeled
BMW where multi-child pick and delivery is not imposed on me.<BR><BR>
<DIV style="CLEAR: both">Charlie <BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From:
<A
__removedLink__1755069635__href="mailto:the-hound@juno.com">the-hound@juno.com</A>
<<A
__removedLink__1755069635__href="mailto:the-hound@juno.com">the-hound@juno.com</A>><BR>To:
<A
__removedLink__1755069635__href="mailto:bmwcsregister@idb.dedforest.net">bmwcsregister@idb.dedforest.net</A>;
<A
__removedLink__1755069635__href="mailto:bmwcsregistry@idb.ded.forest.net">bmwcsregistry@idb.ded.forest.net</A><BR>Sent:
Thu, 17 Jul 2008 3:35 pm<BR>Subject: [BMWCSRegistry] Check This New BWM Out
Everyone<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV id=AOLMsgPart_3_5295c066-91b9-488e-9648-d421be9c8230>
<DIV>Hello:</DIV>
<DIV>This one I would buy in a convertible.............I have been looking
for a 2006 Cooper S White, Silver or Red with a tan or
burgundy interior 6 speed. </DIV>
<DIV><A target=_blank
__removedLink__1755069635__href="http://www.forbesautos.com/news/headlines/2008/july/fadc-bmw-announces-electric-mini-tests.html?partner=yahoofp">http://www.forbesautos.com/news/headlines/2008/july/fadc-bmw-announces-electric-mini-tests.html?partner=yahoofp</A></DIV>
<DIV>The-Hound......Have a nice day and weekend.</DIV><FONT
face=Times-New-Roman
size=2><BR><BR>____________________________________________________________
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